I dont believe it....

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DaveD
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I dont believe it....

Post by DaveD » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:26 pm

'The European debt-relief plan, agreed to last week, has been thrown into doubt as Greece now says it will hold a referendum on whether to approve it'.

You will know what will be the outcome.

One Greek survey showed 60 percent of those questioned took a negative view of the Brussels agreement, reached in the middle of the night last Thursday. Until Monday, there had been no suggestion of a referendum on the plan.

They say Turkey has nice beaches and night life. Might give it a go next year.

Chris
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Re: I dont believe it....

Post by Chris » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:47 am



Hi Dave,

All along I have been given grief on this very issue on other forums, whereby I have said that the Greeks will not accept any offers if it does not suit them, and here we are with the very people who agreed on it last week, who are now saying it is not enough. I have always said that the Greeks make a rod for their own backs. What more are they expecting the rest of the Eurozone and EU to do. From Spiros blogs on the street to the high ranking position of premier, the whole of Greece is not happy with the way things are going, yet they do nothing to help themselves because so far the Eurozone has given in to their plight. Now it is time to say enough is enough, stop dragging the world down, and get off your backsides and help your own economy.

The knock on effect of this attitude is beyond belief, and other Mediteranean destinations will take advantage of this, specially those outside the Eurozone.


DaveD
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Re: I dont believe it....

Post by DaveD » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:40 pm

Hi Chris. I am expecting to wake up one day soon to the news that Greece has left the EU. I can see only two paths they can take. 1) Greece accept the EU proposals and for at least the next thirty/forty years, or more, they (the people) pay back what has been borrowed with interest. 2) Greece pulls out of the EC and in doing so will suffer at the very least a 90% reduction in all their savings and interest (homes and business) as nobody will trade with them in fear they will loose their goods or services, plus any new Greek currency will be worthless. The Germans and especially the French will be looking for their money back some how. This could turn very messy.

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Re: I dont believe it....

Post by Chris » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:10 am



I agree with DaveD. Already I have seen on other forums and social networks where many are backing what the Premier and the People of Greece are doing. To me it seems ludicrous to asked for help, receive the help, and then decide to do this, knowing that the people of Greece will vote against it. I feel they have now made a rod for their own backs, and which ever way they go as indicated, they will have serious problems and troubles ahead. They cannot be trusted, and cannot see major countries in the Eurozone and EU allowing them to do this without some sort of reprocussion. Seriously, this could be the end of Greece as we know it.



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Re: I dont believe it....

Post by DaveD » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:07 pm

I have noticed, on the Olympic holiday web, that some apartments on Crete, where we have enjoyed many a great holiday, have now had the words added 'Hurry apartments almost booked up'. Usually we book these apartments in Feb/March of the year. Could be a ploy to secure customers. Probably try Turkey next year. By the way wheres Matera these days? :wink:

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Re: I dont believe it....

Post by Chris » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:57 pm



Answering your last question first. Mitera has been on the forum, in fact she was online at 1.57am this morning. Obviously could not sleep.

I have been reading with concern today that the Minister of Defence for Greece has changed all the Heads of the Armed Forces, Army, Navy and Air Force. I wonder if they are expecting something. It is obvious that the rest of the EU are up in arms on this matter having secured what they thought was a good and welcomed deal, only for this to happen. Many said before that summitt that the Greek people would not be happy, then from what I can see of late they are not happy about anything. For some reason they believe if they are being helped by the EU, then they are helping themselves to get out of debt. This is how non understanding of the situation they really think.

People might take advantage of the cheap Greek holidays being advertised now as they normally do leading up to Christmas, but if this continues, next year could be a final year unless something concrete happens. Greece cannot leave the Eurozone, they would not survive on their own, they have no money to begin with. It has to be a bailout or nothing.


DaveD
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Re: I dont believe it....

Post by DaveD » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:24 pm

Rang Olympic to enquire about a hol and guess what, every date is still avaliable???
My guess is this. Greece holds a referendum in December. If the Greeks decide a NO is in order then come Jan 1st they will just leave the EEC, just like that.

mitera
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Re: I dont believe it....

Post by mitera » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:43 pm

Can anyone explain to me in laymans terms please :spec: :spec: i am not politicaly minded and my brains in a bit of a tiz over all this , if i ask hubby he goes on his political rant :shock: what will really happen to Greece .

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Re: I dont believe it....

Post by DaveD » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:15 pm

Hi there Mitera nice to see you again. Greece has got into trouble 'caus the loans they were given by the banks they basically cant re pay them. The EU have offered to help bail them out and in doing so Greece will have to impose tough spending measures which will not be liked by its people. This lead to riots and the EU then said that the debt could be halved and more money would be forthcoming. This was agreed by their PM who then told the EC that he would have to ballot the Greek people regarding the rescue plan. This didnt go down well with the EC who thought the deal was secured. Its a bit like having a mortgage you cant pay. A YES vote means they get the extra money and the debt halved but tough austerity measures for twenty years and more imposed. A NO vote means the debt will be still there until its paid IN FULL and Greece will be on their own owing a HUGE debt, not being able to borrow money from anyone, possibly leaving the EU back to the days of fishing and farming as nobody will trade with them. They are faced with a problem similar to Germany after the first world war. I think that they will vote NO. I just cant see a sensible solution whichever decision they make its not going to be popular.

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Re: I dont believe it....

Post by mitera » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:46 pm

Thanks for the more simple explanation Dave, yes i understand most of that , and i love Greece and her people but in the 25, ish years i have been going there have been many changes,which is normal , but those were the days when the famlies all worked together and the business was handed down. these days its its understandable that the youngsters want to go abroad or to Uni, most places we have been over the last few years there have been many Romnian or Polish people working in the Tavernas which costs money and they dont pay tax , woudnt be the first time we have seen the police car driving up and down looking for them , once we never got our order because when the waitress spotted the police she ran for it lol , we have even been to a few places where the owners only in their 40's dont even bother working and let a few foreigners run the business which was a bit odd when i asked for our order in Greek and the waitress didnt understand me :ddown: and i rarely go to anywhere overly touristy , even this year in Kefalonia there were few tourists and the girl who by herself ran the bar and cleaned the pool and cooked and served the meals is from Bulgaria, dont get me wrong shes lovely , but the owner and his wife didnt work there much at all , so while they all drive huge new cars and have 15 brand new televisions in there bars .. one in each corner lol , no wonder Greece is in bother , whilst i realise the problems run deeper than that it doesnt help, we saw a programme a couple of weeks ago where they dont throw plates now in places but throw beautiful fresh flowers , you saw them in a night club and they were ordinary folk who spent a months wages or more on flowers alone and couldnt give a flying fizz about it , one of the reasons i fell in love with Greece was for its couldnt care less attitide and their non uptight ways , while i realise countrys have to move on and get into the modern world and yes the people have a right to a living , i so much preferred Greece when the people were modest and familys worked alongside each other , i fear in 30 years there will be very little tradition left as the youngsters are much more shrewd as business men .

DaveD
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Re: I dont believe it....

Post by DaveD » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:59 pm

We also noticed the lack of any Greeks working in the tavernas. We made a point of looking for Greek run tavernas with Greek staff. I just hope it all sorts itself out before we book for next year.

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Re: I dont believe it....

Post by Chris » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:44 am



I cannot add much more than what has been said by Dave. I have been visiting Corfu, and other Greek destinations, both with the Navy, and as holidays since 1974. I have watched in awe at the way Greece became commericialised, in particular with the tourist industry, which in turn has turned places like Corfu in to holiday destinations that is removed from the true Greek culture with the input of foreign workers, who as said, have taken over the management of Tavernas, Bars, etc.

Recently, like most we have been watching the Joanna Lumley Greek Odyssey series on ITV. How wonderful it was to see Greece in her more natural glory, than the overun of tourists, and to see areas that sort of remain in a time warp, representing Greece as it should be in my opinion. Of course we all accept changes, and changes are abound, but tourism has become an easy earner, and this in turn as become one of the main employments that do not hand over the full taxes in support of their nation.

The Greek people in my opinion are making a rod for their own backs. Althought the referendum has now been dropped, there is still the possibility of a change of government which I would imagine would be just as bad. Greece needs to stay in the Eurozone for its own survival. Without the Euro Central Bank, and the IMF, Greece will buckle, and have no support if they decide to leave and return to the Drachma. This is why it is imperative for them to remain with the government they have, and stay in the EU and Eurozone.

The outcome of anything different would be disastrious. Not only for Greece, but for other countries in the EU, and worldwide.



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